ECHOES of The Happenings Around Our Town and Beyond

Diane V. Byrnes, Producer and Host

Echoes of Erin, WEDO 810AM

January 22, 2006

Interview with CONGRESSMAN TIM MURPHY, Pennsylvania

Prefaced with The Ireland Report with Mairtin O'Muilleoir,

Managing Director, Daily Ireland and Andersonstown News Group

Background: Congressman Tim Murphy, 18 th Congressional District, Pennsylvania contacted Jim Caldwell, Political Education Chairman, IAUC, AOH Allegheny County Board, Corresponding Secretary of Knights of Equity, Trustee of Conway Mill Trust and requested a meeting with several leaders in the Pittsburgh Irish Community. Congressman Murphy was participating in a Congressional Delegation to Ireland , Northern Ireland and London , departing Sunday, January 15; he was interested to learn some of the issues of concern within our community.

Representatives of ten organizations met with Congressman Murphy on Saturday, January 7, 2006 for approximately 2 ½ hours. Upon his return, Congressman Murphy called a debriefing meeting for Saturday, January 21 st and shared his thoughts on his trip. Representatives of organizations included:

1. Jim Lamb, President of The Ireland Institute of Pittsburgh
2. Jim Caldwell, IAUC, AOH, KOE, Conway Mill
3. Jim Green, AOH Pennsylvania State President, AOH Division 1 South Hills; Board Member Irish Society for Education and Charity
4. Ellen Toomey , President Daughters of Erin
5. Christine O'Kain, Vice President, Daughters of Erin
6. Dennis Murphy, AOH Sean MacBride Division 32, Carnegie
7. Patrick McCann, AOH Sean MacBride Division 32, Carnegie
8. Tom Long, AOH Past President, Msgr. Charles Owen Rice Division 1, South Hills
9. Greg Garrison, Worthy Sir Knight, Knight of Equity
10. Mac McCafferty, Vice President, Irish Centre of Pittsburgh
11. Maggie VanCleave, Director, Conway Mill Trust
12. Terri Johnston, Irish American Unity Conference, Conway Mill Trust
13. Diane Byrnes, Producer & Host, Echoes of Erin, WEDO 810AM

Our first meeting also included:

1. Sarah McAullife Bellin, President, IAUC
2. Denny Donnelly, President, AOH Allegheny County Board
3. Bernie Donnelly, Past President AOH Sean MacBride Division 32
4. John Tarpey, President AOH Msgr. Charles Owen Rice Division 1, South Hills

After our meeting, Congressman Murphy conducted a short ten minute interview which aired on Sunday, January 22, 2006.

Prior to airing this interview, my News Correspondent Mairtin O'Muilleoir, Managing Director of Daily Ireland and the Andersonstown News Group gave us the following report which coincides with Congressman Murphy's interview.

DVB: Hello Mairtin, how are you doing and how are things in Belfast ?

MO'M: Things are well in Belfast . It was very exciting for us last week because we had a Congressional Delegation come over to see us, sort of a mixed bag. Congressman Murphy from Pennsylvania , Congressman Walsh from New York and Congressman Higgins from New York . They involved themselves in a round of diplomatic meetings which I think were useful. Often the language used after the meetings is very conciliatory and it is hard to know just how much of an impact they had. But their message was very clear – they asked for movement and they asked for the momentum in the peace process built up by the IRA decision to go away as it were last year and to completely decommission; they asked for all the parties in the British Government and Irish Government to build on that.

They visited Dublin , they were in Dundalk on the boarder, they were in Belfast and finished off their trip in London . They were to meet Ian Paisley's party in London , I don't know if that happened or not. You know traditionally, the extreme Unionists have been very careful in supping with Irish America. But it has been a positive in a year which we hope will be positive and that brings us on to this week.

Later this week we expect the publication of the International Monitoring Commission's (IMC) report into the status of the ceasefires. We are hopeful that that will report the facts; and the facts are that the IRA is no longer involved in any activity whatsoever and has decommissioned. That report was to spring boarded us into discussions on February 6 th and we hoped that they were going to be initiated by Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair together.

The ‘fly in the ointment' is that a senior police officer here, a man by the name of Kincaid who was in the old RUC, said last week that the IRA was still involved in criminal activity. Now he didn't give any names or proof or evidence, but obviously that type of statement is upsetting to those who said that the IRA has concluded activity. But those who have said that include Bertie Ahern, the Irish Taoiseach and Shaun Woodward, the British direct rule Security Minister.

Sinn Fein has alleged and Gerry Adams has alleged in recent weeks that there is a very strong political agenda at the heart of the police force. He feels that statements by senior members of the police, that the IRA isn't playing ball, are political statements and have to be taken with a ‘grain of salt'.

Ian Paisley's DUP does not want to have the Good Friday institutions and the power sharing arrangements reconstituted; therefore he will seize on every opportunity to delay progress. So we are sort of at a little bit of a limbo, a little bit of a hiatus. But we are hoping for a very active coming week and the weeks after that.

I think the people here are hopeful that we are not going to move into more months of inactivity or no activity; people have their fingers crossed. So that's where we are Diane at this stage.

DVB: Yesterday morning a group of us had met with Congressman Tim Murphy who was part of that Congressional Delegation and yes, they did meet with the DUP in London . He had very positive comments to make on their visit there.

I conducted an interview with him after our debriefing meeting and I am going to air that shortly after the news today.

MO'M: Well I hope that will be on the internet too because they did a series of meeting here and they said coming out of them they wanted the government to be put back on its feet. They also wanted Sinn Fein to engage with the policing board. But I felt that they pulled their punches and I'm wondering if your interview goes up on the internet if they would also be diplomatic when they are back on their home soil.

These missions and political delegations are all about diplomacy, but we also need some straight talk. It is twelve years since the first IRA ceasefire; we are now into the assembly and the members who were elected in 2003 have never sat in the Assembly. The Executive has never come together and it is getting a bit absurd and I think people are getting tired of it. The DUP foot-dragging and the Unionists foot-dragging in this, really has to come to an end. Everything they have asked for in terms of the IRA decommissioning going away, they have received. Republicans said at the time that wouldn't be enough, and unfortunately, that is being proved correct. So it really is time for Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair to stand up and be counted. We really hope they don't ‘shilly-shally' on this but that they do demand acts from the DUP.

I would urge caution Diane because Peter Hain who is Secretary of State has been going all out to prove as bonifide to the DUP and he had a rather embarrassing interview last week where he said that he found Ian Paisley and his deputy Peter Robinson to be nice people and he wanted to be friends with them. Now in all the 30 odd years of British direct rule, no one has ever said that they found Peter Robinson and Ian Paisley to be nice guys, whatever else they said about them, or to be friendly guys. So it is a little bit embarrassing, he hasn't got any reciprocity for that, he hasn't got any movement from the DUP for that type of statement.

The DUP are arguing very strong for some deal short of Good Friday and the hope is that they mustn't succeed in that because the GFA was the compromise and honorable compromise and any attempt by the DUP to undermine that would be really a shocking blow to nationalist Ireland

Mairtin concluded his news report with additional thoughts.

Interview with Congressman Tim Murphy.

Introduction: A couple of weeks ago a group of us representing ten Irish organizations met at Molly Brannigan's in Mt. Lebanon with Congressman Tim Murphy of the 18 th Congressional District; he was part of a Congressional Delegation that went to Ireland and London last week to show support and recognition of the Good Friday Peace Accord. This was the first time that Congressman Murphy embarked on such a mission in Ireland and it has been a few years since a delegation traveled there to show America 's support. We met again with him on January 21st for a debriefing meeting.

DVB: Congressman Tim Murphy you went to Ireland last week; you were in the Republic and Northern Ireland ; tell us who you went with and some of the people you met while you were there?

TM: I went with two other members of Congress – Congressman Jim Walsh of New York and Congressman Brian Higgins of New York . While we were there, in addition to meeting folks from the Republic of Ireland from their Foreign Services Department, we also met with a number of folks in Northern Ireland , representatives of the Ulster Unionist Party, Sinn Fein, the Social Democratic & Labor Party, and also folks with the DUP as well.

DVB: What was your purpose for this Congressional Delegation going to Ireland ?

TM: There had not been a Congressional / Federal official US Government entity going to Northern Ireland for a year or so. It was extremely important because; since the Good Friday Agreement, the parties involved need to know that the United States Government officially is interested in and recognizes the importance of them continuing to work together. This is a particularly critical time because the International Monitoring Commission is due with a report in the next couple of weeks.

Our assumption is that the report will be fairly favorable with regard to what the parties are working on; the decommissioning by the IRA; people meeting and moving forward. But they need to know the pressure remains with them to come to resolutions. The Good Friday Agreement was in 1998 and the years are ticking by. Each side has stalemated at times, making more demands of the other – the DUP saying Sinn Fein isn't going far enough with being part of the police force; Sinn Fein saying the DUP isn't going far enough recognizing them and taking care of some of their problems.

If they do not move forward and just keep the same sort of stalemate going - our concern is that Westminster will come back in and say “that's it, we are cutting your salaries you are not being paid any more, we are just going to go back to the same old kind of government” – which simply puts things backwards. Our concern then is you have everybody retreating back to the neighborhoods and, quite frankly, will this resort in more violence, and we don't want that.

You have a lot of people here with a huge investment in making things go forward. This is something that I think the citizens have asked for for decades. They have an opportunity and we hope that the parties all stay involved in making this work.

DVB: With all the information that you gathered last week, what is your next step? What will happen? How will you report to our President? Is there any process involved right now on a follow-up meeting? What do you do next?

TM: Our next step will be that we report back to the State Department what the results were. Along the way we had Ambassadors from the US (James C. Kenny), England (Robert Holmes Tuttle) and Ireland (Declan Kelly) with us as well as folks from the State Department in Northern Ireland . They themselves were present at the meetings and will write some reports as well.

Our point is by all of our presence, is to emphasize that the elements with the Good Friday Agreement and because they also listen to the President's words on this, it will be important if he is able to make any statements either formally publicly or even quietly through the Ambassador. He also believes as do we, they have got to stay at the table. Not only to work out differences but, quite frankly it's at the point that they have got to form a government. They can either retreat back into fighting each other or they can move forward to work with each other.

Every group had their stories to tell, their wounds – we are all aware of them – they are terrible. We won't get anywhere in continuing to rehash those issues, but we can move forward if they agree enough is enough.

DVB: Two men that are very much in the forefront of news are Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley. You met them both; give us your opinion of those men.

TM: Reverend Paisley was – I had asked him ‘What legacy would he like to leave behind?' His belief was that he was pleased that Ireland was not united. He said that he was a unionist, born and bred and that's how he wanted it to be. Alright, if that is the case, and if there is still going to be a separate Northern Ireland verses the Republic of Ireland, be that as it may, the interest is still the people of Northern Ireland want to have peace and want to have a government moving towards that, that is governed out of Northern Ireland by the people and not turned over to Westminster. He is at a point in his life where I hope he will move forward on that legacy instead of simply a legacy of saying NO to everyone. There are hints that the DUP can move in that direction. And I hope so because that would be in everyone interest especially when they see the economy of Ireland flourishing and Belfast has fallen far behind.

Gerry Adams had his rhetoric tone focusing that they were there to protect their interests; as I understand. He did not want to talk about the IRA but wanted to talk about the government. He even made some statements with regard to the loyalists giving them credit for moving forward on some things. His sticking point is the police force right now because they feel the police still do some harassment, but at least he is using that as a card to move forward.

The point is, both sides can continue to sling barbs and arrows back and forth at one another. I think here, there is enough indications that they have an opportunity to move forward and somehow you hope that people like that step back and, in light of history, say ‘how do they want to be remembered and what do they want to have for their citizens - peace and prosperity, which is literally at their doorstep, OR continue back to the fighting; which I hope and want to believe, that none of them want to resort to that.

DVB: Yes, I would agree with you. Certainly the people would not be in favor or supportive of that effort at all. I know you have been to Ireland before on holiday; this is your first time as a politician going and exploring and investigating issues. How has your opinion changed OR has it not changed since you engaged with all of these people?

TM: One of the things that was really valuable – it is one thing to be a tourist and see the impact of all the buildings going on in Ireland ; it is another thing to hear from the leaders how proud they are of making it happen. Quite frankly I would like to see us do that here in Pennsylvania or this region. With some of their efforts, they lowered taxes, it is a very pro-business climate. It is a very young community; they attract a lot of American businesses - Dell, Intel, Google; they are all over there with big buildings, manufacturing. They have completely stemmed the tide of emigration out of Ireland and now they are trying to get more people in there. That's valuable!

To have seen that and talked with the leaders involved in that, is amazing! I must tell you it is an amazing thing to watch these folks, who over the years we all have read about, watched on television, we have read their books and to believe that they are inching towards some resolutions.

I think it is interesting the words used, that someone really thought through this – reconciliation is a great word to use - the process that they can be involved with; to be able to reconcile their differences and move forward, really involves not just a change of politics but a change of heart. Coming before and saying ‘we can't keep going through that'. To be able to sit in a room with these folks and see that there is potential here, was an amazing process, and I hope we conveyed that to them. That they really are standing at a position, a crossroads, where they can be remembered for what they did in moving forward or backwards. It was amazing to be part of that.

DVB: In Northern Ireland , do the politicians not realize the VALUE of working together for their constituents as compared too having laws coming out of Westminster ?

TM: This is where there is a similarity between being a politician in America and being a politician there. People come to us to have things taken care of with their passports or their potholes, or their taxes, just as they are over there. And they can win a lot of support from that but also they can win a lot of support if they pay attention to what the people really want. They want peace and prosperity. They want to know when they go to work in the morning and coming back at the end of the day they are getting a paycheck at the end of the month. If they focus on that, it is real valuable. And I think they are seeing that, more so in the south than in the north because the North has not quite experienced this yet.

In fact in the North when we talked about it, their concern was people smuggling cigarettes, diesel fuel and petrol and selling it for a lower price up North because the taxes are lower. This is not a magical solution; you lower the taxes to be competitive and then you shut off that resource. So instead of complaining about who is a terrorist or who is a thief, take away that incentive and in the meantime you will also allow for more prosperity. I think they are merging with this viewpoint, they are learning more about and I think that is a real valuable asset. And in a situation like this, often times the thing that pushes peace forward most is when the people start to recognize they are better off with peace than they are with the continued fighting. I think in the past they were so frustrated that that is all they focused on.

VB: Well Congressman Murphy, I know your time is limited as is our time on the show today. Thank you very much and we will do this again after your return trip to the island of Ireland